Intertek's Building & Construction Podcast – Certification

Introduction

Welcome to Intertek’s Building & Construction Podcast, where we discuss all things related to consulting, testing, and certification for building products and construction. Join our guest JP Kayle, Intertek’s Vice President of Product Certification for Building and Construction. JP will be discussing the importance of global certification and the process that companies go through to get their product certified with Intertek.

Transcript

Shawn Donovan  0:00 

Welcome to Intertek’s Building and Construction podcast where we discuss all things related to consulting, testing, and certification for the building products and construction industry. I'm Shawn Donovan, with Donovan and Associates, and I'll be your host for today's podcast on building products certification. Product certification is a critical element for building product manufacturers to get their products to market. To shed some light on this topic and provide some insight. We're excited to have JP Kale as our guest today. JP is vice president of product certification for Intertek Building and Construction Business Line. Welcome JP.

JP Kayl  0:40 

Thank you, Shawn. And thank you for having me.  JP Kayl, VP of global certification for Intertek Building and Construction Business Line. I've been with Intertek for over seven years now. And so essentially, I've been in the testing, inspection, and certification industry for nearly 18 years, I started my career in France as an engineer, obviously, I grew up in France, you know, where I started, like I said, as a far testing engineer working out of the foreign testing lab.

Shawn Donovan  1:12 

By the way, the accent I'm picking up...

JP Kayl  1:13 

Exactly right, as much as I'm trying to hide it, you know, it's still there. And after, after working for a few years in France have decided to move to the Middle East, where I've been running test labs and certification body for over a decade. And then I moved to the US almost three years ago now to take on the VP role with Intertek. So again, thinking about global certification. You know, my international experience, you know, helps me tremendously in my day-to-day, you know, to understand, you know, customers inquiries, and provide the best service throughout really.

Shawn Donovan  1:53 

and I guess it truly does point out that certification is a global, a global initiative. Thanks for the background. So let's kind of jump into this topic on certification. Can you provide for our audience kind of a general overview of you know, what is building construction certification?

JP Kayl  2:19 

The product certification is in most cases, a regulatory requirement that is mandated by the building code, local authorities having jurisdiction or a particular industry, that regulation, they actually specify an obligation if you will, by the manufacturer, to certify a particular product or a system. So in short certification is to respond to a regulatory demand, you know, irrespective of what the demand is, it's not particular to the building and construction space, this is certification as a whole.

Shawn Donovan  3:09 

in general, I would assume that certifications are typically mandated, right? It's not like somebody will get certified if they don't have to get certified.

JP Kayl  3:17 

We kind of would like it to be that way to some degree. But essentially, most of our customers come to us because they need to provide evidence of compliance, again, with a certain regulation or requirement, Yes.

Shawn Donovan  3:36 

Okay, great. So, JB, there can be some confusion, I think, with a lot of us when it comes to testing versus certification. And can you explain to the audience kind of the differences between the two?

JP Kayl  3:48 

You're absolutely right. Sometimes there is some confusion between testing and certification. The two go together certainly from a certification perspective, the testing is a critical and essential piece of the certification process, the testing is there really to determine the performance of a particular product right. So, for example, you could determine you know, sound absorption for a wall or a door or if you want to determine the fire resistance of construction as somebody any kind of performance like that, you know, is determined by testing. So, certification is there to ensure that the performances of that particular product are met throughout time. So, essentially, you know, we make sure via certain mechanism, you know, that involves, you know, factory production control and some other requirements to make sure that you know, production is and performances are met throughout time.

Shawn Donovan  4:53

So, and again, not to make mistake there is testing as part of the certification process.

JP Kayl  4:57 

Exactly right. Right. Again, like I said before, testing is essential to determine the product performance. So it's part of the certification package. Yes, absolutely.

Shawn Donovan  5:07 

And then is certification typically in a lab? Or when you do certification on a job site? Or all the above? I mean, what is typical?

JP Kayl  5:19 

For the most part, so testing is another lab certification effectively can be done anywhere, right, it's a process, it's a system. So the system can be applicable, you know, anywhere you want, really. What certification provides is, is that the product that leaves the manufacturing facility meets the performance, it intends to. Now, you know, we go beyond that now, right, because it's certain that, you know, the way certain products are being installed on site, you know, do not necessarily conform with the way they've been tested. And we're there to make sure that, you know, installation is where it needs to be, you know, to ensure that the product will actually perform the way it performed during the testing process.

Shawn Donovan  6:10 

Now, we were talking a little bit earlier about the certification in the lab, and as you'd mentioned, even in the field with a system, but there's also certification for the fabrication or production side as well?

JP Kayl  6:23

the production is an essential part of the certification process, this is how we maintain certification for the most part. So we go to the factories a number of times a year to verify that day-to-day production meets the specification of the product that's been tested. So this is how we ensure, like I said, you know, day-to-day production meet meets meet performances.

Shawn Donovan  6:50 

is it kind of like an audit, when you go in?

JP Kayl  6:54

It's very much like an audit, it's a factory audit, yes, it's a factory audit. So, so we're going to verify incoming materials, processes, if production lines change, you know, if any details change, I mean, we go down to the packaging, and if we go to a great, you know, level of details to verify that what's, again, what's being produced on a day-to-day basis, you know, meets what's been tested originally.

Shawn Donovan  7:18

And I have to assume with the process that's involved in the longevity of this, you developed some pretty strong relationships with the clients.

JP Kayl  7:26 

Absolutely. And it certification is definitely a long-term relationship. And that relationship evolves around, you know, over time, you know, based on our customer's needs, you know, and markets, I mean, you know, if I think of a particular project, you know, that have worked on several years ago, it all started with the customer, you know, in Europe, willing to access a particular market, and the request was, was fairly straightforward, right. And we ended up providing certification for a very limited scope for a rather small market when it comes to the sheer market size if you will. And that's your point, Shawn, I think it's, it's critical, you know, you have a very good relationship with your customer, you know, you understand each other very well, you know, what to expect from each other, because, again, product lifecycle is going to remain, you know, sometimes for several decades. And you want to make sure that compliance is ensured throughout you know, that longevity, but at the same time, you know, your customer needs might evolve over time. So, they might develop new products or target new markets, you know, so, you have to make sure that you have the solutions that you know, will be suitable for, for your customer needs, really, you know, so, again, longevity, and long-term relationships. So this is absolutely essential in our, in our, in our market.

Shawn Donovan  9:05 

So, out of curiosity, a typical Intertek client for certification 5, 10 years,

JP Kayl  9:10 

More, Yes, some of our customers have been with us for over two decades, you know, and we thank them for that. Right. And we try to service them, you know, to the best of our ability and like I said, you know, continue to touch base with them on a recurring basis, you know, in addition, obviously, to the factory inspection form for them. But really, I mean, it's, it's what it comes down to, you know, it's understanding what their goals are. I think this is absolutely essential when it comes to approaching a new project is what the end goal is before we quickly embark on the testing and certification process. You know, it's absolutely critical, certainly, from our perspective, to have a very deep understanding of what our customers are trying to achieve.

Shawn Donovan  9:59 

So I think that maybe ties into the process, which was one of my questions when you talk about the sort of allocation process a new client comes in, and you have that initial meeting and discussion with the client, can you kind of take our audience through what that process is from start to finish, if you will, from getting certification and working with the client?

JP Kayl  10:18 

Absolutely. So like I said before, first of all, we want to sit down with the customer and define what the end goal is. So whether it's new markets, the marketplace, or new product, the range of the product, the complexity of the project. So we want to make sure we have that understood, and that we're all on the same page, before we come up with a proposal, test plan, that's going to highlight the different steps that are needed, you know, to achieve certification. More and more, we try to tag a timeline, you know to each task, just to make sure that, you know, we, you know, we have an understanding with our customers as to how long this is going to take depending on, again, the complexity and whatnot. And then it would add that, you know, a very, very critical aspect, and process of the certification is, is doing a product, what we call the product sampling. In short, we're going to the factory, and sample the product that will subsequently be tested to determine its performance, And for us that that task is absolutely critical because we need to understand how the product has been manufactured, we need to understand what materials have been used, you know, for that product, and because once it's tested, a lot of the testing we do is destructive, right? When we do fire testing. There's just no way you can necessarily reverse engineer, you know, what was in the product, because there's no more product, So, again, I think it's, it's, it's critical, you know, we ensure that that step is met, you know, early on. So we have all that data that we can use later on, to deliver the certain, you know, the certification, what we call certification deliverables, in the forms of listing design, this thing's certificate of compliance, sometimes, depending on the marketplace. And subsequent to that, you know, this is where we initiate, you know, what we call the factory production control, and go to the factory, you know, on a recurring basis to make sure that, you know, processes are met, and that, the traceability details that we've established pre testing like I said earlier.

Shawn Donovan  12:36 

And I guess there really isn't necessarily an end date, right? Because, as you'd mentioned earlier, it's really, as long as the product is out there and living the certification processes.

JP Kayl  12:42 

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But the things to consider also, as products may evolve, right, the same product, say raw materials are no longer available, or our customer decides to expand the market and wants to sell the same product overseas. But, you know, as opposed to shipping, you know, customer is going to decide to build a new manufacturing plant, you know, across the ocean, you know, so it's, it's, and this is where the quality control process becomes, you know, absolutely critical to what we do, because, again, it's making sure we ensure consistency, throughout time, but also throughout, you know, the entire network of manufacturing locations, right, because, you know, could be one manufacturing locations up to I don't know, you know, 25, you're already across the globe, right. And you want to ensure that consistency across the network of manufacturing locations. So, the inspection process is, like I said before, absolutely critical to maintaining, maintaining certification.

Shawn Donovan  13:49 

So, you know, we touch on the global aspect of this and Intertek is a very global company, and you've got background globally when it comes to certification. Do you have a lot of clients that participate in multiple countries with a particular product that has to have different certifications for each country? I mean, is that common when you're working with international more and more openly say,

JP Kayl  14:08 

Shawn, more and more not so much in the past, but nowadays, you know, in today's markets, you know, you have to be fast, right, you have to provide, you know, solutions to your customer customers want to be the first in the marketplace. So, speed to market is critical. And, like you said, you know, and like we pointed out earlier, requirements vary from market to market. So, requirements to penetrate, you know, markets, like, you know, where we are today in southeast Florida are not the same as in Europe or in the Middle East or Southeast Asia. So again, I think, this is where, you know, we really have a very, very good value proposition you know, in the marketplace, right. It's because we have that that you know, global presence. So we have an in-depth, you know, knowledge of, you know, what the requirements are, you know, we have local teams, for the most part, not descending in every, you know, every country, but we're fairly near. And you know, we have superior technology and combined, you know, with our global presence, I think, you know, it enables us to provide what I call a one-stop shop when it comes to, you know, having Yeah, good value proposition to offer to your customers.

Shawn Donovan  15:31

So JP, what type of building products are typically certified? And why are those products certified?

JP Kayl  15:38

Shawn, we can pretty much certify every building products, component and assemblies that make up you know, any, any building really, you know, so take the room we're in right now, you know, if you look around you, we can pretty much certify, you know, anything. So door, Windows walls, surface finishing, ceilings, we can certify that for a number of different performance, ranging for, you know, acoustics, like sound absorption, or fire rating, fire reaction, flame ability, structural, but by and large, you know, most of the certification we provide revolves around safety, you know, whether it's structural safety, fire safety, and, you know, the ability to provide a certain level of comfort, you know, for building owners and, users that, you know, products are actually fit for purpose that the products actually comply with, with a building code requirements. And that, you know, essentially, they're safeguarding their safety.

Shawn Donovan  16:50

And I guess the safety play makes sense because that's really what the building codes are for. Right. So a certification or certifying those products meet the codes that are designed typically for safety. So that it's interesting, you say, like everything in the room, you don't really think about, you know, is there a certification for, you know, the materials in a carpet or the ceiling tiles or stuff like that. So it really is broad in scope. And when you think about that, I know you guys do a lot of testing with fire, but fire products, fire doors, and all that, but it sounds like you're well, expansive beyond that, as far as the products and the testing certification that you do.

JP Kayl  17:23

Yeah, no, we already are, you know, expanding it outside, you know, fire resistance, again, I think, fire for us was our bread and butter, you know, a long time, you know, but we're branching out into other space. I mean, we've been very, very successful with our code compliance research report program, you know, it really encompasses, you know, multiple disciplines, if you will, so fire is one aspect of the product compliance. But like I said, before, we can look at all types of material testing, a Bdts, and also structural and, and whatever, you know, acceptance criteria’s, and local requirements might require really, but fire remain, you know, the bulk of what we do, I would say, but we're branching out into a lot more now.

Shawn Donovan  18:10

Yeah, sounds like it. And I'm assuming our audience on the website, pretty much has all the materials, all the testing certification, you guys do, right. I mean, that would be the go-to, for them to see really what Intertek

JP Kayl  18:21

Yes. So one of the benefits of certification is the ability to verify online on our public directory that certain products meet certain standards and certain performance. So essentially, like I said, we have a directory with various drop-down menus, ranging from countries to products to manufacturers' name, and then you have access, not to all the information, obviously, because there is no high level of proprietary information, right, it comes to what we do. But once you have, like a good visibility about what the product specifications are, so it gives the ability for architects, again, building owners, building inspector managers that that beyond you know, the certification deliverable we issue in the forms of documents, you can also verify online that products are effectively certified. Sometimes we encounter counterfeits, you know, and, and we have, we have issues like that. And so it's important, you know, we will look at this on a global scale.

Shawn Donovan  19:26 

Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like a great resource, by the way, to be able to have it again.

Shawn Donovan  22:31

JP, can you just talk a little bit on a company's perspective, what the benefits are of having products certified,

JP Kayl  19.37 

One of the benefits is definitely to, to be able to have product differentiation, you know, in the marketplace, when, when you're being compared against a sole goal, you know, similar product, really, you know, if you have a third party, that's really working with you, you know, to prove certain compliance with certain performance, not just compliance with a regulation, which is, you know, obviously, the main requirements or the main benefit of certification, but in today's marketplace in today's world, you know, I think, like I said, you know, it critical, you know, an essential added benefit is to be able to differentiate your product in the marketplace. I mean, clearly, there are more and more suppliers around the world, and because of certification manufacturers, located all over the world have access to any given market. So I don't, I don't need to manufacture you know, in Florida to have access to south Florida, you know, market so you can be pretty much anywhere and I think being able to do that is important. One of the other benefits of certification is to provide a very high level of comfort, you know, to end-users. Since a renowned for party essentially verifies to product quality on an ongoing basis. You know, I think it's very important you know, there are disasters and casualties all around the world when it comes to you know, buildings and whether it's fires or we're building collapsing unfortunately and, and having you know, proof of compliance and first especially and that proof of compliance being available to end-user is absolutely critical in today's world.

Shawn Donovan  21;30 

And I would think too there's some value in working with a company like Intertek, which is globally known in the industry for the quality work that they do, and I don't know, if companies promote the fact that we've got our certification by Intertek, but I would see some value there if nothing else, as you kind of market your, your position with the certifications in the market.

JP Kayl  21;50 

That's exactly right. You know this is what's happening. And we, we encourage this, you know, we definitely encourage our customers to, to highlight the fact that, you know, they work with us, you know, hopefully, they're happy with the services we, we provide, but like I said before, you know, it's, it's a proof of, of high quality, you know, and beyond, again, the fact that it's a necessity when it comes to complying with code requirements.

Shawn Donovan  22:19 

 Okay, great. So, you know, the marks and labeling have to be a big part of certification, can you talk a little bit of about that aspect of it, and what clients can expect when it comes to labeling their products once they are certified?

JP Kayl  22:34 

Absolutely. Certification marks and labeling really indicate that no independent third-party certification body has tested the product to the appropriate standards. And certification body also ensures compliance, you know, if the manufacturing process really. So besides our online product directory of certified products, certification marks are the divisible part of the certification and provides end-user the assurance that the product meets certain standards. So again, it in most cases, it's kind of hard to visualize, you know, what, what certification brings to the table? Right, because it's, it's a, it's a process, there was just a lot of documentation, there is quality audit testing, you know, I think the mark again, brings that added value, you know, and demonstrates, you know, and we are happy to put our name and our mark on to our customer's product, because, again, work alongside, you know, our customers to make sure that compliances are met. And, yeah, I mean, our mark is recognized throughout the world. You know, we're very proud of that, you know, and, and, and we hope that our customers are proud as well to be able to display that mark.

Shawn Donovan  24:02 

Now, when it comes to building code inspectors, I mean, do they is that a mark that actually comes into play when it's been inspected by building code officials or not so much,

JP Kayl  24:11

especially in the openings in the street, you know, the foreign door industry? Yeah. Because clearly, the mark is visible, you know, in the form of a label that's being affixed, either onto a door or onto a frame or both, depending on the testing standard. And the type of door we've been certifying

Shawn Donovan  24:31 

It is required, by the way, you'd have to have a mark on a fire door for you have

JP Kayl  24:34

You have to have a mark on the door, you know. And beyond that, you know, particularly here domestically in the US, it is mandated that building officials or building inspectors perform an annual fire door inspection to make sure that the doors still open the way they should be, they operate the way they shouldn't be they been installed the way it should be. So it's absolutely essential to verify that ongoing process on-site as well, to make sure that the product meet meets the performance.

Shawn Donovan  25:05 

Very interesting. Well, JB, this has been great stuff. And, you know, thanks for your time and giving us a better understanding of product certification. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you'd like to share with the audience before we wrap things up here?

JP Kayl  25:21 

Yeah, Shawn, one last thing I'd like to mention is one of the many advantages of working with it Intertek is the fact that we're a trusted global quality provider. And when you look at what the world, you know, has endured over the past couple of years, you know, I think right now it's, even more, predominant than it was before the pandemic. A lot of requests we have is, is for products to access different markets. You know, and I think this is where we have a good value proposition to offer. We're truly a global player, we're present in pretty much every continent, you know, we have a good understanding of what the requirements are. And, you know, we're, I think it puts us in a very good position to help our customers to meet their needs.

Shawn Donovan  26:25 

Yeah, absolutely. JP, thanks a lot. And that concludes our building and construction podcasts by Intertek. See you next time.